I Had a destitute Romanian across my path today..
How crazy that they and Bulgarians can be here legally as EU nationals yet with no right to seek employment nor to claim on public funds.
see an outline of the situation on http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5381990.stm
He'd even been thrown out of a homeless night shelter because they could not claim housing benefit on his behalf!!
Wednesday, May 30, 2007
Monday, May 28, 2007
Running Wild in Broadgate
Back in the early spring a local open space back of South Beech Street was tidied up by Groundwork as part of their Small sites in west preston scheme. It looked really good, overgrown shrubs cleared out, litter remove, ground cover plants planted and all topped with a layer of woodchip mulch. Ir was an Avencentral SRB6 project so their logo got stuck up on some nice signs, designed by local school kids.
But look at it today 3 months on...
Why has it deteriorated so quickly...
But look at it today 3 months on...
Why has it deteriorated so quickly...
There has been some deliberate damage with some plants ripped up.. probabbly by bored and possibly drunken people.. And maybe the choice of plants and quality of weed root removal was not good when the work was done
But the real problem is lack of maintenance... Why?
Because it was a short term project... Groundwork's funding came to an end on March 31st. and their staff are no longer around.. In an ideal world they would have left behind a community group to look after the place... But why should anyone want to work hard gardening a public space when we pay the Council to do that and we are all busy anyway? And the community development was just not done in the original project.
Formally the city council has the responsibility for maintaining the area.. But they are always and increasingly hard pressed for staff and funds.. If its not a high prestige area then they are going to neglect it.
So its yet another example of a short term scheme based on funny regeneration money ending up being a waste of effort, because there was no continuation funding...
Friday, April 27, 2007
The Lie and The Acts of Tony Blair
In our recent home group Bible study we looked at the story of Ananias and Sapphira in.
Acts 4:32 - 5:11
It’s a frightening story if you take seriously the idea of the judgment of God against sin, be it in this world as in the Bible story or in the world to come. Our group concluded as many Bible scholars have before that the sin that made the apostles so angry was not so much the selfishness and lack of generosity that caused the guilty couple to keep back some of their wealth for themselves, but their deceit and hypocrisy when they made out that they were handing over the full value of their property to the fund for the relief of poverty. Indeed it is this lie and deceit, reflecting the character of Satan, the father of all lies, that is the sin against the Holy Spirit which as Jesus taught cannot be forgiven.
We all need to acknowledge as Isaiah did that “I am a person of unclean lips, and I dwell among a people of unclean lips.” This is especially necessary if we are to go on to critique others for their apparent deceit. There is always the possibility that we may be wrong in our judgments, or too harsh, for ultimately there is only one just judge, who sees all things clearly, that is the Lord God himself. But at least that confession of fallibility clears the way for us to speak the truth as we see it, in anger perhaps yet in love and concern and sadness as we see the possibility of a day of reckoning approaching.
I find it hard not to consider how this story compares with the present political situation in the UK.
A dozen or more years ago many of us were utterly fed up with Tory sleaze and their misguided policies. We were overwhelmingly cynical when Jonathan Aitken spoke of the “sword of truth” even as he was being convicted and jailed in a perjury trial. Ironically many years later he appears to have come out of it all quite well, as a repentant siner and changed character having found faith in Jesus.
Ten years ago on that bright May morning I, with many others who had stayed up through election night, and cheered heartily as Tory ministers and MPs (especially Michael Portillo) were unseated, we hoped it was a new dawn, and joined in the song that “things can only get better”. Personally, even then I was not totally convinced.
I had joined the Labour Party in Newham in 1980, and been active in it through all the Thatcher years. I’d been a branch chair and secretary, campaigned at every local and National Election and even considered going for selection as a councilor (In Newham it was selection that mattered not election as the “monkey with a red rose will always win” rule always applied.). Some of my friends got on the Council, one eventually became Leader, did some good things with a deft touch and eventually became MP.
In 1992 after campaigning at the general election, with a baby son I’d helped produce especially for Labour candidates to kiss, that despite the polls, I was devastated we lost again and John Major was back in Downing Street.
After that my enthusiasm waned. I was never a great fan of John Smith and when he died I soon understood that the young Tony Blair looked like a winner, and have to admit I gave him my vote in the leadership election. But from then on it was downhill all the way. Disillusion set in as I realised that even if Labour won the next election it wouldn’t make much difference, at least not on the great issues of poverty and justice at home and overseas. So it was that my activism died, I failed to renew my Party membership, and I played no part in the 1997 campaign. Ten years on I can’t even remember if I voted for them, but if I did I’m pretty certain it was the last time.
And now exactly a decade later it seems that Mr. Blair is packing his bags and about to leave Downing Street. And I am not just a half hearted reluctant fellow traveler as I was in 1997. I have instead become utterly and absolutely opposed to everything New Labour stands for, and to almost everything they have done or failed to do. I am convinced I will never vote for that party again, and am amazed that anyone else can contemplate doing so.
What has caused this? Above all I would say it is the culture of The Lie that has been at the heart of the Blair Project. It is a lie that has taken many shapes and forms but here are a few.
It begins with the culture of spin. The presentational and media control skills that were so important in winning the 1997 and 2001 elections have worn thin. Alaistair Campbell and Peter Mandelson have fallen from grace, but their legacy is one of deceit and cynicism. As perhaps never before no one believes a word that any politician utters, including themselves, judging by the way they constantly try to wriggle out of the traps they have set for themselves.
There is the lie that New Labour has a progressive agenda, that it seeks to work for the good of the many not the few. Meanwhile salary differentials and inequalities continue to increase, and the super rich prosper as never before. Recent changes to the income tax regime certainly fail to indicate a passion to benefit the poorest workers. The minimum wage and tax credits seem to have been helpful, though recent reports suggest more children trapped in poverty that elsewhere in Europe and the brunt of poverty wages and exploitation is now borne by expendable European migrant labour.
There is the lie that New Labour supports and invests in the public sector. Money may have gone in, but most of the effort has been to recruit and empower high paid managers and accountants. In truth most of the staff of the great statutory agencies are alienated by the slavery of target driven management, the devaluing of professional skills and expertise, the outsourcing to low paying private companies, and the general squeeze on pay and working conditions. And just ask someone from Preston how hard it is to find a local NHS dentist who will take new patients!
There is the lie of the new Labour mantra about rights and responsibilities. As I wrote ten years ago there is some good sense and Christian foundations to the political philosophy of communitarianism on which these arguments are based. But it has been transmuted into an oppressive regime where ordinary people are increasingly policed and under surveillance to impose responsibilities and increasingly rights are taken away. There is a coercive model of what constitutes the good active citizen, the adequate parent, the safe employer, the local community or faith group with which the state can engage. Yet at the same time despite human rights legislation, rights to privacy, independence and even freedom of belief and conscience are being taken away. The war on terrorism is used as a smoke screen to increase surveillance, bring in biometric ID cards, and reduce the right of habeas corpus. Meanwhile the big global corporations and anyone with lots of money is rarely challenged about responsibilities, and seem to have increased rights to make more money, influence government and (alledgedly) to buy peerages.
There is the lie about being tough on crime and the causes of crime which was the catch phrase of the earlier Tony Blair. Want seems to have happened is that New Labour has widened the definition of crime, criminalized and locked up record high numbers of people (mainly young working class and ethnic minority men) and invented the category of Anti social behaviour to allow more people to be treated as criminal and excluded without the need for judicial process. More young people feel more alienated, and it’s not surprising they wear hoodies, distrust authority and in some cases turn to armed violence. There is little attempt to understand the causes of crime, and the probation service which traditionally had that role has been left with offender management and risk containment, is driven by irrelevant, unachievable and trivial targets, has a work force who are de skilled and demoralized, and is heading for privatization. Fear of crime seems greater than ever and community policing where it succeeds in engaging established older residents encourages lynch mob mentality.
Then there is the biggest lie of all the war in Iraq. It is bad enough that in ten years Blair has committed UK troops to numerous international conflicts more regularly than any other recent PM. But who would have believed that in 2003 a Labour government, following the lead from a right wing neo conservative, US President, and despite the opposition on the streets of millions of concerned citizens would invade a middle Eastern state on the back of a propaganda campaign about non-existent weapons of mass destruction that could be used against us within hours! If this was a genuine mistake on the part of the intelligence services then they and their political masters ought to be sacked. If it was not a genuine mistake then the deceit is monstrous, causing hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths and suffering. If the war had been portrayed as an honest attempt to overthrow a tyrannical brutal dictator, even a pacifist might have tolerated it. Even an explanation that the west needed to secure oil supplies would have been more honest. Four years since the invasion the war continues in much more chaotic ways and it seems impossible to find an exit stratgegy.
For these and other lies I shall be glad to see Tony Blair go. In 1997 his message was “Trust me”. He has betrayed that trust, and as a result my and many other people’s trust in politicians has evaporated. For the rest of my life I shall be in active opposition to the Labour Party to which I once belonged. When Thatcher was in power I knew there was an alternative. These days, this side of heaven at least, I am not so sure.
Both Tony Blair and George Bush have publicly declared their Christian faith. We can only hope for their sake that God, who knows and sees all things, and represents perfect justice, will be more generous in his judgment than I have been, and more lenient than He was with Ananias and Sapphira.
Acts 4:32 - 5:11
It’s a frightening story if you take seriously the idea of the judgment of God against sin, be it in this world as in the Bible story or in the world to come. Our group concluded as many Bible scholars have before that the sin that made the apostles so angry was not so much the selfishness and lack of generosity that caused the guilty couple to keep back some of their wealth for themselves, but their deceit and hypocrisy when they made out that they were handing over the full value of their property to the fund for the relief of poverty. Indeed it is this lie and deceit, reflecting the character of Satan, the father of all lies, that is the sin against the Holy Spirit which as Jesus taught cannot be forgiven.
We all need to acknowledge as Isaiah did that “I am a person of unclean lips, and I dwell among a people of unclean lips.” This is especially necessary if we are to go on to critique others for their apparent deceit. There is always the possibility that we may be wrong in our judgments, or too harsh, for ultimately there is only one just judge, who sees all things clearly, that is the Lord God himself. But at least that confession of fallibility clears the way for us to speak the truth as we see it, in anger perhaps yet in love and concern and sadness as we see the possibility of a day of reckoning approaching.
I find it hard not to consider how this story compares with the present political situation in the UK.
A dozen or more years ago many of us were utterly fed up with Tory sleaze and their misguided policies. We were overwhelmingly cynical when Jonathan Aitken spoke of the “sword of truth” even as he was being convicted and jailed in a perjury trial. Ironically many years later he appears to have come out of it all quite well, as a repentant siner and changed character having found faith in Jesus.
Ten years ago on that bright May morning I, with many others who had stayed up through election night, and cheered heartily as Tory ministers and MPs (especially Michael Portillo) were unseated, we hoped it was a new dawn, and joined in the song that “things can only get better”. Personally, even then I was not totally convinced.
I had joined the Labour Party in Newham in 1980, and been active in it through all the Thatcher years. I’d been a branch chair and secretary, campaigned at every local and National Election and even considered going for selection as a councilor (In Newham it was selection that mattered not election as the “monkey with a red rose will always win” rule always applied.). Some of my friends got on the Council, one eventually became Leader, did some good things with a deft touch and eventually became MP.
In 1992 after campaigning at the general election, with a baby son I’d helped produce especially for Labour candidates to kiss, that despite the polls, I was devastated we lost again and John Major was back in Downing Street.
After that my enthusiasm waned. I was never a great fan of John Smith and when he died I soon understood that the young Tony Blair looked like a winner, and have to admit I gave him my vote in the leadership election. But from then on it was downhill all the way. Disillusion set in as I realised that even if Labour won the next election it wouldn’t make much difference, at least not on the great issues of poverty and justice at home and overseas. So it was that my activism died, I failed to renew my Party membership, and I played no part in the 1997 campaign. Ten years on I can’t even remember if I voted for them, but if I did I’m pretty certain it was the last time.
And now exactly a decade later it seems that Mr. Blair is packing his bags and about to leave Downing Street. And I am not just a half hearted reluctant fellow traveler as I was in 1997. I have instead become utterly and absolutely opposed to everything New Labour stands for, and to almost everything they have done or failed to do. I am convinced I will never vote for that party again, and am amazed that anyone else can contemplate doing so.
What has caused this? Above all I would say it is the culture of The Lie that has been at the heart of the Blair Project. It is a lie that has taken many shapes and forms but here are a few.
It begins with the culture of spin. The presentational and media control skills that were so important in winning the 1997 and 2001 elections have worn thin. Alaistair Campbell and Peter Mandelson have fallen from grace, but their legacy is one of deceit and cynicism. As perhaps never before no one believes a word that any politician utters, including themselves, judging by the way they constantly try to wriggle out of the traps they have set for themselves.
There is the lie that New Labour has a progressive agenda, that it seeks to work for the good of the many not the few. Meanwhile salary differentials and inequalities continue to increase, and the super rich prosper as never before. Recent changes to the income tax regime certainly fail to indicate a passion to benefit the poorest workers. The minimum wage and tax credits seem to have been helpful, though recent reports suggest more children trapped in poverty that elsewhere in Europe and the brunt of poverty wages and exploitation is now borne by expendable European migrant labour.
There is the lie that New Labour supports and invests in the public sector. Money may have gone in, but most of the effort has been to recruit and empower high paid managers and accountants. In truth most of the staff of the great statutory agencies are alienated by the slavery of target driven management, the devaluing of professional skills and expertise, the outsourcing to low paying private companies, and the general squeeze on pay and working conditions. And just ask someone from Preston how hard it is to find a local NHS dentist who will take new patients!
There is the lie of the new Labour mantra about rights and responsibilities. As I wrote ten years ago there is some good sense and Christian foundations to the political philosophy of communitarianism on which these arguments are based. But it has been transmuted into an oppressive regime where ordinary people are increasingly policed and under surveillance to impose responsibilities and increasingly rights are taken away. There is a coercive model of what constitutes the good active citizen, the adequate parent, the safe employer, the local community or faith group with which the state can engage. Yet at the same time despite human rights legislation, rights to privacy, independence and even freedom of belief and conscience are being taken away. The war on terrorism is used as a smoke screen to increase surveillance, bring in biometric ID cards, and reduce the right of habeas corpus. Meanwhile the big global corporations and anyone with lots of money is rarely challenged about responsibilities, and seem to have increased rights to make more money, influence government and (alledgedly) to buy peerages.
There is the lie about being tough on crime and the causes of crime which was the catch phrase of the earlier Tony Blair. Want seems to have happened is that New Labour has widened the definition of crime, criminalized and locked up record high numbers of people (mainly young working class and ethnic minority men) and invented the category of Anti social behaviour to allow more people to be treated as criminal and excluded without the need for judicial process. More young people feel more alienated, and it’s not surprising they wear hoodies, distrust authority and in some cases turn to armed violence. There is little attempt to understand the causes of crime, and the probation service which traditionally had that role has been left with offender management and risk containment, is driven by irrelevant, unachievable and trivial targets, has a work force who are de skilled and demoralized, and is heading for privatization. Fear of crime seems greater than ever and community policing where it succeeds in engaging established older residents encourages lynch mob mentality.
Then there is the biggest lie of all the war in Iraq. It is bad enough that in ten years Blair has committed UK troops to numerous international conflicts more regularly than any other recent PM. But who would have believed that in 2003 a Labour government, following the lead from a right wing neo conservative, US President, and despite the opposition on the streets of millions of concerned citizens would invade a middle Eastern state on the back of a propaganda campaign about non-existent weapons of mass destruction that could be used against us within hours! If this was a genuine mistake on the part of the intelligence services then they and their political masters ought to be sacked. If it was not a genuine mistake then the deceit is monstrous, causing hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths and suffering. If the war had been portrayed as an honest attempt to overthrow a tyrannical brutal dictator, even a pacifist might have tolerated it. Even an explanation that the west needed to secure oil supplies would have been more honest. Four years since the invasion the war continues in much more chaotic ways and it seems impossible to find an exit stratgegy.
For these and other lies I shall be glad to see Tony Blair go. In 1997 his message was “Trust me”. He has betrayed that trust, and as a result my and many other people’s trust in politicians has evaporated. For the rest of my life I shall be in active opposition to the Labour Party to which I once belonged. When Thatcher was in power I knew there was an alternative. These days, this side of heaven at least, I am not so sure.
Both Tony Blair and George Bush have publicly declared their Christian faith. We can only hope for their sake that God, who knows and sees all things, and represents perfect justice, will be more generous in his judgment than I have been, and more lenient than He was with Ananias and Sapphira.
Thursday, March 29, 2007
MARCH MONEY MADNESS
It's the last week of March, the end of the government financial year and most people in the public sector, and voluntary organisations like ours who draw down public money are rushing around like the proverbial blue-bottled fly trying to spend every last penny of their budget before the hour glass runs out.
We've got two projects where we've got money to spare and to spend this week..
Our garden project has been given £4000 by the County Council for which we are very grateful. But actually it seems they were bending over backwards to get rid of the money before the end of the financial year... And we've done our best to spend it for them and work is going on this week, and plants have been bought and wait to be delivered..And thankfully we are not being pursued too hard to make sure every receipt or invoice is dated before 1st April.
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Our other project is a computer suite where we have put together a complex funding package from SRB6 and the Safer and Stronger Communities Fund Actually it is a very exciting project and again we are grateful for all the funding we can get.
There really is a bit of madness in this as the first funder is only supporting us for next year (07/08) while the second is offering matched funding from this year's budget (06/07). This means that we have had to spend £5k on equipment this month and submit claim forms and invoices, while the actual installation of the computer suite to make sense of the whole project cannot start till April 1st and will have to be claimed for in the first quarter of next year. And the same goes for the output monitoring, we have to write in the figure 1 four times in a spreadsheet for the SSCF claim to show that we had a target and achiecved it for the last quarter of 06/07 which actually amounted spending the money to buy some cameras and computer equipment. The reality is the government does not believe anything exists unless you can count it (and I'm told a tick in the box won't do as apparently the Treasury can't handle binary maths!)
In our case and with lots of other voluntary agencies we haven't yet officially heard whether revenue grant applications to fund next years salaries are coming through. So we have a double madness of frantic last minute capital spending while people on short term contracts are leaving their jobs or being made redundant at the end of their project
At the same time other public sector bodies such as hospitals have already spent all their dosh for this year and are having to cancel operations.
Surely there must be a more rational and sustainable way of funding public sector programmes and voluntary sector projects. Still I suppose the present regime does keep accountants and auditors in work on a long term basis!!!!
We've got two projects where we've got money to spare and to spend this week..
Our garden project has been given £4000 by the County Council for which we are very grateful. But actually it seems they were bending over backwards to get rid of the money before the end of the financial year... And we've done our best to spend it for them and work is going on this week, and plants have been bought and wait to be delivered..And thankfully we are not being pursued too hard to make sure every receipt or invoice is dated before 1st April.
.jpg)
Our other project is a computer suite where we have put together a complex funding package from SRB6 and the Safer and Stronger Communities Fund Actually it is a very exciting project and again we are grateful for all the funding we can get.
There really is a bit of madness in this as the first funder is only supporting us for next year (07/08) while the second is offering matched funding from this year's budget (06/07). This means that we have had to spend £5k on equipment this month and submit claim forms and invoices, while the actual installation of the computer suite to make sense of the whole project cannot start till April 1st and will have to be claimed for in the first quarter of next year. And the same goes for the output monitoring, we have to write in the figure 1 four times in a spreadsheet for the SSCF claim to show that we had a target and achiecved it for the last quarter of 06/07 which actually amounted spending the money to buy some cameras and computer equipment. The reality is the government does not believe anything exists unless you can count it (and I'm told a tick in the box won't do as apparently the Treasury can't handle binary maths!)
In our case and with lots of other voluntary agencies we haven't yet officially heard whether revenue grant applications to fund next years salaries are coming through. So we have a double madness of frantic last minute capital spending while people on short term contracts are leaving their jobs or being made redundant at the end of their project
At the same time other public sector bodies such as hospitals have already spent all their dosh for this year and are having to cancel operations.
Surely there must be a more rational and sustainable way of funding public sector programmes and voluntary sector projects. Still I suppose the present regime does keep accountants and auditors in work on a long term basis!!!!
Why are some Christians so Islamaphobic?
I just received this chain email ... about the mosque in West Ham which is in the headlines in London.... I've reordered the sections so it makes sense sequentially ending with the responses I've made to the friend who sent it to me and to Alan Craig in Newham...
I find it alarming that Christians react in this way....
Apparently there is a SE London network of evangelicals at the root of it
Nick Wynne-Jones [mailto:nwwj@ccb.org.uk] is something to do with Christ Church Beckenham and has to bear responsibility for spreading what must be a false statement that Ken Livingstone is planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands
and nelsonp@ntlworld.com (see his disclaimer right at the bottom of his email)
I think they need a rebuke!
If you check the Evening Standard article (by Mira Bar-Hillel .. )
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23390637-details/Unelected+quango+to+decide+on+mosque+for+Olympic+site/article.do
they are very careful to limit it to the group has been accused of drawing young men towards an extremist version of Islam.
It's clearly been a Wikipedia approach... in the sense This section does not cite its references or sources.
But it is worth exploring for a more rounded view of Tablighi Jamaat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablighi_Jamaat
ORIGINAL EMAIL BEGINS
From: Nick Wynne-Jones [mailto:nwwj@ccb.org.uk] Sent: 28 March 2007 10:22 To: nelsonp@ntlworld.comSubject: FW: London Olympics & Mosque - please voteImportance: High
Dear Nelson
I have received this and thought it would be something on which members of your circulation list might wish to express their concern through voting.
Every blessing
Nick
(NO SOURCE IS GIVEN for this) I don't know if you have heard about this but Ken Livingstone is planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands. What do you think about it? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport facilities?? Bigger than St Paul's! The plan is for the mosque to be so big that people flying in from all over the world for the 2012 Olympics will it see it as the biggest landmark in London, bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium
Take a second to cast your vote in The Evening Standard on-line poll to determine public opinion about whether a mega mosque should be built for the Olympics. The vote so far is 62 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim community is casting its vote in droves, and as usual the Christians are burying their heads in the sand....
After voting, forward this to as many people as you can. Here's the link: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/poll/poll-18791-details/ques-18669-id/%C2%A3100m+mosque:+Vote+now/poll.do
---------- THIS IS THE Forwarded message That came with the first email ----------
From: Nelson Pallister <nelsonp@ntlworld.com>Date: 28-Mar-2007 11:17
Subject: FW: London Olympics & Mosque - please voteTo: Nelson Pallister <nelsonp@ntlworld.com>
This is the 3rd petition notice I have received and this time the link works, so I am passing it on.
I was present recently at a debate in the House of Lords on Religious Freedom with particular reference to the right to change one's religion. Alan Craig, the Christian Alliance Councillor from Newham, was speaking on the issue of the mosque. He said he gets on well with Muslims and agrees with them on many issues. However, he is opposed to the mosque for the following reasons:
1. It is very close to the West Ham Football Ground which itself creates serious traffic congestion. Another even larger building with its attendant traffic generation will be very disruptive for the area.
2. A massive mosque right at the entrance to the Olympic Stadium would send a message to the world (think of all the TV coverage including views from the air) that Britain is now a Muslim nation.
3. There is already evidence of Muslims moving into the area to be near the mosque and this could create a ghetto-like area (contrary to Olympic principles).
4. The particular Muslim sect (linked to the Wahibi sect) takes an isolationist, separatist stance and has a history of radicalising young Muslims.
5. This sect has its UK HQ in Dewsbury where they have created a separatist parallel society and structure intent on imposing shari'a law in their part of the town. It has become quite intimidating for anyone not associated with the sect to even walk in the street.
Alan Craig said that in Newham 2500 had signed a petition against the mosque and many of those were in fact Muslims. Further questions that could be asked include:
How many women are there on the management committee?
How many Muslim women competitors are there in the Olympics?
How much of the funding for the sect comes from Saudi Arabia (not necessarily from the Government but from other sources there)?
Can people carry a Bible down Riyadh High Street? (There was recently a case where an Air Stewardess was not even allowed by a British airline to take her Bible with her when flying to Saudi Arabia.)
I am not sure about Ken Livingstone using taxpayers' money. Is this correct?
Nelson
I have undertaken to become a distribution point for information of interest to the Churches in Orpington and if appropriate to people in a wider area. I always distribute using the "bcc" option so that no-one's email address is passed on. People wanting to inform others of Inter-church events contact me and if I consider it appropriate, I pass the information on. I do so in good faith, expecting that those who initiate the communication will have ensured accuracy and that all other interests will have been considered. Occasionally I have information that applies to a wider audience than just Orpington and area and I will extend the distribution. If anyone does not want to receive these communications, please ask me to remove you from my distribution list. Please bear in mind, however, that removal from a list means that no communication relating to matters of even more limited interest may be sent to you.
Nelson D A Pallister 07956 237152 Fax: 01689 602961 Email: nelsonp@ntlworld.com
my response to the friend who sent it...
Dear A***
Please do not circulate this sort of thing assuming it is innocent Christian comment... there are political and possibly racist implications very near the surface. It is positively dangerous to egg on Christians and encourage their persecution complex in this way given the polarised nature of communities in Preston and Lancashire.
Alan Craig is an old acquaintance of mine from Newham. I believe Alan is an honourable and sincere Christian guy though I have often disagreed with him and been on opposite sides of political struggles to him in the past. I would take everything he says with a very large pillar of salt! While there are some valid points in the questions he poses these should be asked in face to face dialogue with Muslim leaders, rather than in the megaphone atmosphere of the Evening Standard and internet petitions.
On facts as I understand it
1) the mosque is over a mile from the current WH U F C ground.
2) It is also a mile or two from the proposed Olympic stadium
3:) The area has had a significant Muslim population for well over 30 years and the growth of the Muslim population has resulted from three things, a) the flight of white people including Christians away from the area b) young age structure and high fertility rates in the local Bangladeshi and Pakistani population c) some recent migration into the area of Muslim people from other overseas countries and to some extent from within the UK.
It would probably be illegal for the mayor of London to use tax payers money to build any place of worship..in any religion.. Any subsidy can only be given in the form of regeneration funding for social action or social welfare projects which are open to all as we have received as Christians both in this our Project and in the case of yours! .
In the history of this mosques application for planning permission which goes back ovesidy for 10 years there was a point when Newham Council actually asked the mosque for several million pounds subsidy for the renovation of the derelict River Lea waterfront which adjoins their sight.
If Christians want freedom of religion in this country we should avoid knee jerk reactions like this, at least check our facts to ensure we are not bearing false witness against our neighbours, and be arguing for freedom of religion and justice for our Muslim neighbours
Greg Smith
What I wrote to Alan Craig was this
Dear Alan
I hope you and yours are well... and that life in Newham is good... If you read through the thread of Email correspondence below you'll see a complex chain of how something you said arrived up here on the Christian grapevine and in my view as a result of "Chinese whispers" (sorry for the non PC term) has become in my view quite dangerous for inter community harmony in Lancashire..
It's not absolutely clear to me what are your words and what others have added..
You won't I think be surprised I disagree with some of your views... and it would be great to debate face to face on some of them like we used to...I'll admit you do pose some important questions.. and I hope I haven't been to hard on you or unfair in my critique.. And I hope I have got my facts right now I'm out of touch with the Newham context... I certainly uphold your right to say these sort of things...and in the public domain if you feel it necessary.. In fact it's not you I'm angry about.. but the naievity of understanding of many Christians who pick up and pass on these things as part of their "martyr complex"...and nostalgia for the days of Empire....
We've actually got a similar planning dispute running over a mosque development in Preston at the moment..in a white upper middle class neighbourhood a conservation area like the woodgrange estate.. And while the car parking and architectural blending issues have come to the fore, it has also brought out the BNP racist tribes in leafleting and the local press...which I think you would agree we can do without...
Of course the answer to the parking problem in Newham is for the Hammers to get relegated to the Conference (as they may well be soon!) and for Kingsway and Glory House to move out to Essex!! as I understand the former will be doing..
Meanwhile I will of course vote in favour of the mosque development!
Shalom Greg Smith
I find it alarming that Christians react in this way....
Apparently there is a SE London network of evangelicals at the root of it
Nick Wynne-Jones [mailto:nwwj@ccb.org.uk] is something to do with Christ Church Beckenham and has to bear responsibility for spreading what must be a false statement that Ken Livingstone is planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands
and nelsonp@ntlworld.com (see his disclaimer right at the bottom of his email)
I think they need a rebuke!
If you check the Evening Standard article (by Mira Bar-Hillel .. )
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23390637-details/Unelected+quango+to+decide+on+mosque+for+Olympic+site/article.do
they are very careful to limit it to the group has been accused of drawing young men towards an extremist version of Islam.
It's clearly been a Wikipedia approach... in the sense This section does not cite its references or sources.
But it is worth exploring for a more rounded view of Tablighi Jamaat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablighi_Jamaat
ORIGINAL EMAIL BEGINS
From: Nick Wynne-Jones [mailto:nwwj@ccb.org.uk] Sent: 28 March 2007 10:22 To: nelsonp@ntlworld.comSubject: FW: London Olympics & Mosque - please voteImportance: High
Dear Nelson
I have received this and thought it would be something on which members of your circulation list might wish to express their concern through voting.
Every blessing
Nick
(NO SOURCE IS GIVEN for this) I don't know if you have heard about this but Ken Livingstone is planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands. What do you think about it? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport facilities?? Bigger than St Paul's! The plan is for the mosque to be so big that people flying in from all over the world for the 2012 Olympics will it see it as the biggest landmark in London, bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium
Take a second to cast your vote in The Evening Standard on-line poll to determine public opinion about whether a mega mosque should be built for the Olympics. The vote so far is 62 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim community is casting its vote in droves, and as usual the Christians are burying their heads in the sand....
After voting, forward this to as many people as you can. Here's the link: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/poll/poll-18791-details/ques-18669-id/%C2%A3100m+mosque:+Vote+now/poll.do
---------- THIS IS THE Forwarded message That came with the first email ----------
From: Nelson Pallister <nelsonp@ntlworld.com>Date: 28-Mar-2007 11:17
Subject: FW: London Olympics & Mosque - please voteTo: Nelson Pallister <nelsonp@ntlworld.com>
This is the 3rd petition notice I have received and this time the link works, so I am passing it on.
I was present recently at a debate in the House of Lords on Religious Freedom with particular reference to the right to change one's religion. Alan Craig, the Christian Alliance Councillor from Newham, was speaking on the issue of the mosque. He said he gets on well with Muslims and agrees with them on many issues. However, he is opposed to the mosque for the following reasons:
1. It is very close to the West Ham Football Ground which itself creates serious traffic congestion. Another even larger building with its attendant traffic generation will be very disruptive for the area.
2. A massive mosque right at the entrance to the Olympic Stadium would send a message to the world (think of all the TV coverage including views from the air) that Britain is now a Muslim nation.
3. There is already evidence of Muslims moving into the area to be near the mosque and this could create a ghetto-like area (contrary to Olympic principles).
4. The particular Muslim sect (linked to the Wahibi sect) takes an isolationist, separatist stance and has a history of radicalising young Muslims.
5. This sect has its UK HQ in Dewsbury where they have created a separatist parallel society and structure intent on imposing shari'a law in their part of the town. It has become quite intimidating for anyone not associated with the sect to even walk in the street.
Alan Craig said that in Newham 2500 had signed a petition against the mosque and many of those were in fact Muslims. Further questions that could be asked include:
How many women are there on the management committee?
How many Muslim women competitors are there in the Olympics?
How much of the funding for the sect comes from Saudi Arabia (not necessarily from the Government but from other sources there)?
Can people carry a Bible down Riyadh High Street? (There was recently a case where an Air Stewardess was not even allowed by a British airline to take her Bible with her when flying to Saudi Arabia.)
I am not sure about Ken Livingstone using taxpayers' money. Is this correct?
Nelson
I have undertaken to become a distribution point for information of interest to the Churches in Orpington and if appropriate to people in a wider area. I always distribute using the "bcc" option so that no-one's email address is passed on. People wanting to inform others of Inter-church events contact me and if I consider it appropriate, I pass the information on. I do so in good faith, expecting that those who initiate the communication will have ensured accuracy and that all other interests will have been considered. Occasionally I have information that applies to a wider audience than just Orpington and area and I will extend the distribution. If anyone does not want to receive these communications, please ask me to remove you from my distribution list. Please bear in mind, however, that removal from a list means that no communication relating to matters of even more limited interest may be sent to you.
Nelson D A Pallister 07956 237152 Fax: 01689 602961 Email: nelsonp@ntlworld.com
my response to the friend who sent it...
Dear A***
Please do not circulate this sort of thing assuming it is innocent Christian comment... there are political and possibly racist implications very near the surface. It is positively dangerous to egg on Christians and encourage their persecution complex in this way given the polarised nature of communities in Preston and Lancashire.
Alan Craig is an old acquaintance of mine from Newham. I believe Alan is an honourable and sincere Christian guy though I have often disagreed with him and been on opposite sides of political struggles to him in the past. I would take everything he says with a very large pillar of salt! While there are some valid points in the questions he poses these should be asked in face to face dialogue with Muslim leaders, rather than in the megaphone atmosphere of the Evening Standard and internet petitions.
On facts as I understand it
1) the mosque is over a mile from the current WH U F C ground.
2) It is also a mile or two from the proposed Olympic stadium
3:) The area has had a significant Muslim population for well over 30 years and the growth of the Muslim population has resulted from three things, a) the flight of white people including Christians away from the area b) young age structure and high fertility rates in the local Bangladeshi and Pakistani population c) some recent migration into the area of Muslim people from other overseas countries and to some extent from within the UK.
It would probably be illegal for the mayor of London to use tax payers money to build any place of worship..in any religion.. Any subsidy can only be given in the form of regeneration funding for social action or social welfare projects which are open to all as we have received as Christians both in this our Project and in the case of yours! .
In the history of this mosques application for planning permission which goes back ovesidy for 10 years there was a point when Newham Council actually asked the mosque for several million pounds subsidy for the renovation of the derelict River Lea waterfront which adjoins their sight.
If Christians want freedom of religion in this country we should avoid knee jerk reactions like this, at least check our facts to ensure we are not bearing false witness against our neighbours, and be arguing for freedom of religion and justice for our Muslim neighbours
Greg Smith
What I wrote to Alan Craig was this
Dear Alan
I hope you and yours are well... and that life in Newham is good... If you read through the thread of Email correspondence below you'll see a complex chain of how something you said arrived up here on the Christian grapevine and in my view as a result of "Chinese whispers" (sorry for the non PC term) has become in my view quite dangerous for inter community harmony in Lancashire..
It's not absolutely clear to me what are your words and what others have added..
You won't I think be surprised I disagree with some of your views... and it would be great to debate face to face on some of them like we used to...I'll admit you do pose some important questions.. and I hope I haven't been to hard on you or unfair in my critique.. And I hope I have got my facts right now I'm out of touch with the Newham context... I certainly uphold your right to say these sort of things...and in the public domain if you feel it necessary.. In fact it's not you I'm angry about.. but the naievity of understanding of many Christians who pick up and pass on these things as part of their "martyr complex"...and nostalgia for the days of Empire....
We've actually got a similar planning dispute running over a mosque development in Preston at the moment..in a white upper middle class neighbourhood a conservation area like the woodgrange estate.. And while the car parking and architectural blending issues have come to the fore, it has also brought out the BNP racist tribes in leafleting and the local press...which I think you would agree we can do without...
Of course the answer to the parking problem in Newham is for the Hammers to get relegated to the Conference (as they may well be soon!) and for Kingsway and Glory House to move out to Essex!! as I understand the former will be doing..
Meanwhile I will of course vote in favour of the mosque development!
Shalom Greg Smith
Monday, March 12, 2007
71000 Duke of Gloucester Cumbrian Tour 10th March 2007
.JPG)
Crossing the Kent viaduct between Arnside and Grange over Sands.JPG)
BIKES FOR SALE
Pinarello Road Bike, small frame, suitable for 8 -13 year old taking up competitive cycling, Preston area, will accept offers around £180
Also very basic tandem, suit one average adult and one small adult or child. In need of some attention will accept offers around £120
And Girl's Mountain bike suit 10 year old: £30
Contact : greg3@maister-smith.fsnet.co.uk /01772 827987
Also very basic tandem, suit one average adult and one small adult or child. In need of some attention will accept offers around £120
And Girl's Mountain bike suit 10 year old: £30
Contact : greg3@maister-smith.fsnet.co.uk /01772 827987
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